Sports Factor - 28/09/01: Best & Fairest

Radio National's The Sports Factor

With Gerald Tooth
28/09/01

Best & Fairest

Summary: Norm Smith and Clive Churchill. After the final hooter in this weekend’s football Grand Finals, medals bearing their names will be handed to the most outstanding player from each game. But who were Smith and Churchill? Are they still relevant to the games of Australian Rules and Rugby League? And is it missing the point to single out individual performances in team sports?

Ron Barassi tells his personal tale of life in Norm Smith’s backyard. While Rugby League Great Johnny Raper recounts the day that Clive Churchill taught him a football lesson.

And the judges tell us what sort of performances they’ll be looking for before awarding the medals.
Details or Transcript:
THEME

Gerald Tooth: This week on The Sports Factor, Norm Smith and Clive Churchill, names from half a century ago who’ll both be playing a role in this week’s football grand finals.

I’m Gerald Tooth and I’ll be presenting the program for the next few weeks while Amanda Smith is holidaying. And as far as I’m concerned, Amanda couldn’t have timed her break any better, because there couldn’t be a better way to slip into her seat than with the football finals weekend.

As the tribes gather in Melbourne and Sydney for the respective Australian Rules and Rugby League end-of-season finales, we’re looking at two history-laden names from the two games, names that are invoked after every Grand Final.

Norm Smith and Clive Churchill.

Medals bearing their names are presented to the best player in each Grand Final. For both codes these medals are relatively recently introduced traditions.

Man: Well ladies and gentlemen, the Norm Smith Medal, which is awarded to the player adjudged best of field in the Grand Final. And the winner of the Norm Smith Medal for 1997 is Andrew McLeod of the Adelaide Crows.

Sports reporter: The Clive Churchill Medal winner, Darryn Lockyer mounts the stage, shakes the hand of the Prime Minister …

Man: … and the Norm Smith Medallist for 1999 is Shannon Grant.

Shannon Grant: This is just fantastic, isn’t it?

Man: … very talented players have won the Clive Churchill Medal; the little master, he was one of the greats.

Man: … and that winner is the Melbourne Number 7, Brett Kimmorley.

CHEERS

Gerald Tooth: We’re joined in the studio by two football historians, and for those of you who thought football and intellectual activity were mutually exclusive, well John Harms and Brett Hutchins are living proof that you’re wrong.

John Harms is perhaps already known to you as the author of a cricket book, ‘Confessions of a 13th Man’, but he’s in the middle of writing his next book which is about AFL football. And Brett Hutchins is also well known as a Bradman historian, but being the seasonal academic that he is, he’s also written extensively about Rugby League for academic journals.

John and Brett, welcome to The Sports Factor and our discussion about Norm Smith and Clive Churchill.

Both: Thank you, Gerald.

Gerald Tooth: John Harms, firstly to you: the Norm Smith Medal has a slightly longer history than the Clive Churchill Medal. The first Norm Smith Medal was presented in 1979 to Carlton’s Wayne Harms, who we must say is no relation. Why though, in a game that dates back to the 19th century, did it take so long to come up with an award for the best on ground in the Grand Final?

John Harms: It’s an interesting question because there’ve been some great Grand Finals I suppose and some great performances, but perhaps an answer to that is the fact that there’s been so much focus on the winning of the premiership that has just been the absolute pinnacle, and the highlight of the season, to the exclusion of everything else including say the Brownlow Medal or even interstate football I think, that it’s it in Victorian football as it is in I suppose League football in the other capital cities as well. But perhaps that’s one reason why the individual performance hadn’t been seen to be deserving of a specific accolade.

Gerald Tooth: How did the medal come about in the first place?

John Harms: Well I suppose it came at a time when the VFL was looking, not so much for gimmicks but for things which might promote to code elsewhere, and they’d taken the code to Sydney and had exhibition games in places other than Melbourne and so on. And at the end of the 1970s when the code was growing, this was perhaps another publicity opportunity. Also I think there were certainly great performances in Grand Finals past that perhaps people thought should be recognised, and certainly Wayne Harms, to receive the first award in 1979, he was clearly best on ground, but an individual action of his, an individual event also has entered football folklore.

Gerald Tooth: And what is that?

John Harms: Well he kicked – it was a very tight match. Carlton-Collingwood on a greasy, wet MCG day, and Harms picked up the ball and ran off the half-forward flank and looked to kick it into full forward; it slewed off the side of his boot under pressure, it went towards the boundary line, he followed up his own kick and heroically dived towards the boundary line and slapped it 35 metres in-field. The Collingwood supporters of course say that the boundary umpire got it wrong and the ball was out, but Ken Sheldon picked the ball up in the gold square and kicked the goal for Carlton which turned out to be a huge turning point in that last quarter.

Gerald Tooth: So the Norm Smith Medal was born out of controversy?

John Harms: Yes, and people will remember that particular incident and I think that actually did a lot for the Norm Smith Medal, because people remember Wayne Harms as the first winner, and from then on we’ve of course had some fantastic winners.

Gerald Tooth: Brett Hutchins, Clive Churchill died in 1985 and the first medal in Rugby League was presented the next year in 1986 to Parramatta’s Peter Sterling. Who decided that Rugby League needed a medal just like the AFL?

Brett Hutchins: I think in many cases Rugby League being the professional sport that’s always sought to set itself apart from Rugby Union, has been quick to always go for the commercial opportunity, so man of the match awards in the ‘70s, the Amco Cup, the midweek cup you know, the man of the match got a pair of jeans that were the competition sponsors. Now as a result, there’s always been the sense that the man of the match is always the Nissan, the Carlton Gold, the Holden, the Ford, you name it, they’re always the man of the match according to a brand name.

Gerald Tooth: But this is something that stands outside that?

Brett Hutchins: Yes, exactly. And I think once he died, a few brains at the New South Wales Rugby League as they were known at the time, decided we can actually invent a bit of tradition here, we can create something that stands outside the commercial arena, and honour the person who was arguably Rugby League’s greatest player, the man known as the little master, Clive Churchill. So in that sense I think it almost puts the man of the match award in the Grand Final, the Clive Churchill Medal, up a step. It creates a bit of prestige around it and it really takes it beyond the average man of the match award, and it’s something that’s been becoming increasingly recognised over the past 15 years.

Gerald Tooth: It has taken some time to be recognised though, it’s not something that’s talked about say in the same sense as the Brownlow’s talked about and the AFL winning the Clive Churchill in the Grand Final isn’t something that’s reported on so widely.

Brett Hutchins: No, it’s sort of interesting. The ones that have been reported more on, Sterling in the first year, arguably the most influential player of the ‘80s, possibly the best player, but also when fullbacks have won it, Darryn Lockyer and Robbie O’Davis from Newcastle and Brisbane respectively, it was spoken about a lot more due to the fact that of course Churchill was also a fullback. And I think it will be increasingly talked about this year, given the whole emphasis on tradition and the fans, and tribalism, given that we’re really as far as the NRL are concerned, I think this year represents sort of the post cold war battle, you know Parramatta versus Newcastle, this is the return to traditions that super league took away from us.

Gerald Tooth: John Harms, Norm Smith the man, he was a huge influence in AFL wasn’t he?

John Harms: Yes, both as a player and as a coach. He had a long career at Melbourne and a very successful career. He himself played in four premiership sides from ’39 through to ’48 and then he went on to coach Fitzroy where he wasn’t so successful from ’49 to ’51 but of course he was famous for his period at the helm as coach of Melbourne from ’52 to ’67 where they won six premierships, and then he had a couple of years shortly before his untimely death at South Melbourne. So when the decision was made to call the medal the Norm Smith Medal, it was a very popular decision.

Gerald Tooth: And he died at 57.

John Harms: He did, in 1973.

Gerald Tooth: Clive Churchill died at 58, and had a similar sort of history in football, in Rugby League.

Brett Hutchins: Certainly, yes. Regarded as I say, as possibly the greatest ever. Dalley Messenger who’s often attributed as the greatest player in League said of Clive Churchill, ‘He’s the greatest’. I think Alan Jones in one of his, well fairly regular hyperbolic moments, declared him ‘He’s the Carl Lewis, the Don Bradman, the Walter Lindrum of League’. And for many people I suppose that rings true.

Gerald Tooth: So Brett, it was an equally popular decision to name the Clive Churchill as it was to name the Norm Smith?

Brett Hutchins: Certainly, and it came not long after in 1984, Churchill was awarded an Order of Australia. He also had a grandstand built at the SCG for him, which is now attached to the Brewongle [Stand] and you can sit in the Churchill Stand. So it followed on a lot of commemorations around the great man as such.

Gerald Tooth: And do you think it’s because these men died early that they’ve been remembered in this way?

John Harms: In the case of Norm Smith, certainly he was still in the memory of people as he still is today, not just because of the medal but because of his performances as player and coach, his career generally in football. And also the type of character that he was. There was a real sense of leadership in it. He could be prickly at times, he liked to do things his own way but he’s also remembered as a very generous man too.

Gerald Tooth: All right, if I can ask this question of both of you, but perhaps Brett you can give the answer first: do you think it’s fair in a team game on the biggest game of the year, to elevate an individual performance above that of the team and honour someone in this way?

Brett Hutchins: You could argue it isn’t fair. I think at a pragmatic level someone’s always going to name a man of the match however, and instead of having the Nissan or the Ford as I was saying earlier, the Carlton Cold man of the match, why not have a bit of tradition that’s associated with the man of the match, or take it out of the commercial realm instead of having a person thank the sponsors with a thousand dollar cheque in their hand. Actually accept a medal, which is part of Rugby League’s tradition, and actually says something about the game, not necessarily something just about the sponsor. So yes, a two-parter really, a pragmatic element, but also taking it away from the commercial arena.

Gerald Tooth: John Harms?

John Harms: I think if you asked Gary Ablett whether he would have preferred a premiership medallion or a Norm Smith Medal …

Gerald Tooth: Ablett of course was one of the few people to win the Norm Smith in a losing side.

John Harms: In a losing side, in a huge performance when he kicked nine goals. But still, it wasn’t enough to win the flag, and Hawthorn performed very evenly that day, and perhaps in that case it was difficult to find a stand-out Hawthorn player. But I suppose in Australian Football there are times when it is a very even performance from the whole side, and maybe in that case it’s difficult to find someone, but there are situations where someone clearly is best of field on the day. I think Andrew McLeod’s second Norm Smith Medal, of course he won two, one in ’97 and one in ’98, his third quarter against the Kangaroos was sublime, and I recall just rewatching (I was writing a column at the time) and watching it and watching it again, every time he touched the ball he brought players into the game, it was just a fantastic performance and certainly deserving of some sort of recognition like that.

Gerald Tooth: And talking about him, he’s one of many of a disproportionate number of Aboriginal players to have won the Norm Smith, why do you think that is? Can you offer a reason at all?

John Harms: No I can’t offer a reason but it’s very interesting, isn’t it, that Aboriginal people are over-represented in football generally, according to statistics, and similarly here, miles over-represented in terms of McLeod, Greg Williams, Michael Long, a fantastic performance in ’93, Peter Matera, Maurice Rioli, I hope I haven’t missed anyone there, but you can see that’s what, maybe six out of the 21, 22 years. It’s quite remarkable.

Gerald Tooth: John Harms and Brett Hutchins, thank you very much.

MUSIC

Gerald Tooth: ‘Rugby League Immortal’, and that’s an official title, Johnny Raper, met Clive Churchill in 1957 when he was in what he calls his football nappies.

Johnny Raper: He was the type of fullback that was not only up among the backs but was also up among the forwards. He was very strong in his defence and he also had no fear of being hurt in the game of Rugby League. And his skills at the game were extraordinary; he could pass from either side, he could kick with either leg and he was just one of those players that you always wanted in a football team.

Gerald Tooth: Clive Churchill was known as the little master, and he was little, just 5-foot-7 tall; how did a small man like that impose himself on the game in such a dominating fashion?

Johnny Raper: Well in those days for a man his size and the amount of tackling that he had to do when he was running with the ball, it was a different type of game. There was 13 against 13, no person was allowed to leave the field, and if you came off the field in those days, you got the expression what they used to call a dog: you ran away from fear and danger, and you dare not leave the football field unless you were carried off the football field. But Churchill always showed great times when he was obviously injured very seriously and refused to go off the field. And I remember one of the first games I played against Churchill was when he was on the end of his career, and he was playing five-eighth.

Gerald Tooth: For South Sydney.

Johnny Raper: For South Sydney of course, and Dickie Pool, the coach then said, ‘Now son,’ he said, ‘you’re playing against a good player here today. It’s Clive Churchill,’ he said, ‘don’t underestimate him because he’s a fullback’, he said, ‘because he’s capable of just about handling every position.’ And as cocky as I was in those days, I said, ‘Dick, don’t worry, you won’t have any trouble with him.’ As play went on, I got a bit cockier than what I should normally do, being 16 years of age I went up and I hit Churchill and I said, (I mean with a legal tackle of course) and I said, ‘How do you like that one?’ He said, ‘That’s good son,’ he said, ‘that’s beaut.’ Then a couple of moments later I hit him with another crash tackle and knocked him to the ground, and I said, ‘Now how was that one?’ And he said, ‘That was a lot better, by the way’, you know, he just sort of sat there and after we played the ball and before he got up he said that word, he said, ‘You know, it’s better than the last one.’ And the next time I hit him he said, ‘That was your best one, son.’ So I thought, oh well I must be getting over the old fellow. He said, ‘But next time you’d better hit me with the ball. Have a look up the other end of the field.’ Well what Clive had done he’d sucked me in, the winger come from the blind side, he give him the ball, Ian Moir it was in those days, give him the ball and Moir was putting the ball down between the posts as I was talking to Churchill. And I always admired Churchill immensely from that day, more than what I admired him before. And it was a great pleasure, having tackled Clive Churchill, it was a great pleasure getting a lesson from him.

I think you know, as time went on in my career, players like Langlands and one of the great players today young Lockyer, have shown glimpses of Clive Churchill in their player. Lockyer nearly plays his game to a T.

Gerald Tooth: He went on to coach Australia and when he was coaching Australia you were in that side. How did he approach that job, what do you remember about his role as Australian coach?

Johnny Raper: Well he was fantastic. He was what you’d want as a coach. He was able to lift the player up when he was down, and lift the side up when they were down. He was inspirational, he knew his game of Rugby League, and we found him such a great chap, you know, and always one of the boys, but could be the stern disciplinarian when he had to be.

Gerald Tooth: Johnny Raper, who played against Clive Churchill in his early Rugby League days and who was coached by him as a Kangaroo.

Ron Barassi is the AFL coach who swept all before him in his days with Carlton, and he’s a man who knew Norm Smith better than most.

Ron Barassi began his professional football career by spending four years in Norm Smith’s backyard in Melbourne.

Ron Barassi: My father was killed in the war and my mother remarried and went to live in Tasmania, and because as a young aspiring footballer, once you got over there, you might be invited back to try out for the VFL, you might have problems with clearances from the club you were with, so rather than run into that sort of trouble, you get a mother like mine who bought a bungalow and put it up in the back of the coach’s backyard. That’s how I got it going, live with the coach, it’s a very good idea.

Gerald Tooth: And how did that come about, your mother organised that?

Ron Barassi: Yes she did; in consultation with Norm, because her deceased husband, my father, was a mate of Norm’s, they were team-mates at the Melbourne Football Club, they played in one premiership together. Norm played in a lot more than that of course. And they’d kept up their friendship, very close friendship, and Norm Smith and Marje Smith his wife, used to work at the same place as my mother and later on myself. So they were intimate friends, and that’s how it came about. Very luckily for me, because Norm was an excellent influence to a young independent 16 and 17 year old, I needed someone to straighten me out, and Norm was just the man, both in football and in life.

Gerald Tooth: How did he do that?

Ron Barassi: Oh just by being fairly wise and hard, strict but fair, hard but fair. We used to have other words added on to those hard but fair things.

Gerald Tooth: He sounds slightly humourless, was that the case?

Ron Barassi: No, definitely not. He liked the social situation and he liked a drink, but he kept the two things, I wouldn’t say absolutely separate. I can remember one night, just to illustrate, and he even had a sense of humour on the training track, we had a training night on the MCG, luckily we played on the MCG all of our career. And he gathering around himself one night in front of the Members, (there were no people there watching training) and out came this guy from Tasmania. He was late, and he came into the back of the group and Norm said, ‘Jonesy’ (let’s say that’s his name) ‘where have you been?’ (This is in 1956 and the Olympic stand, the new Olympic stand, the whole stadium had been re-furbed and parts of it were brand new and huge, it held 110,000. But in Tasmania they call the dressing rooms ‘the shed’.) And this bloke said, ‘Oh sorry, Norm, I got caught up in the sheds.’ And there was this silence. ‘Sheds?’ looking around at this vast stadium, slowly looking around, ‘SHEDS?’ And we all just burst out laughing, it was terrific. Absolutely sensational person.

Gerald Tooth: What did he do, what tactics did he introduce to the game that took it to a different level?

Ron Barassi: He probably had the fittest team in the competition. He was very strong on heavy training, his professionalism and demands upon players, mainly character stuff, he was a very personal coach. I guess one thing he did introduce – it was a boggy MCG and it was only a sort of a quarter of an acre that was firm enough to train well on. Naturally in a quarter of an acre, with 50 players, you’ve got to have a different drill. So we had this drill where the kicks between each group of players only had to be short, 25 metres, and he just noticed how often the players handled the ball and how they must have enjoyed it, so we turned that drill from then on short ends, but it was the precursor to the big thing today where they handle the ball virtually constantly. And he was very strict on discipline, not for the sake of being a disciplinarian but for the sake that it does produce the best footballer, and I think now, I mean if you don’t get a person who’s unselfish and disciplined on field, he’s regarded as a poor player. That was not the case when Norm was coaching.

Gerald Tooth: Ron Barassi, who never had the chance to play for a Norm Smith Medal.

On the day, both the winners of the Norm Smith and the Clive Churchill Medal will be chosen by committee.

In the case of the Clive Churchill this year, for the first time the Australian Rugby League selectors have been asked to choose the best Grand Final player. The selectors are Arthur Beetson, Bob Fulton, Les Geeves, Chris Anderson and Bob McCarthy.

Bob McCarthy explains what he’ll be looking for in a prospective medal winner.

Bob McCarthy: The player that has the most skills in attack I suppose on the day, and defends well and passes well, and just predominantly stands out. If it’s 2-2, or I suppose it will be a tie you know what I mean, so I think we can nut it out between the five of us.

Gerald Tooth: And it’s not a distraction looking for the one outstanding player at the same time as you’re assessing both sides for possible candidates for the Australian side?

Bob McCarthy: Oh yes, it can work that way. I mean we don’t pick a side till the next day anyway, so it will just be out of who plays good on the day you know.

Gerald Tooth: Suffice to say though that winning the Clive Churchill would be a pretty good leg up if you’re looking for Australian selection?

Bob McCarthy: Well that’s right, when it comes to selection. I mean playing Test matches is great for your country, there’s a lot of pressure on you to play for your country, but I think the ultimate is playing in a Grand Final where you have the pressure from ten months of training, and playing and putting it all together, and all of a sudden it comes down to one day, and the pressure does get to you. I know, I played in six Grand Finals and I know it does wear you down and to come out and sort of play good in that arena, well you know, you’ve really got to stand out.

Gerald Tooth: Personally, what are the criteria that you’re looking for to make a player worthy of the Clive Churchill?

Bob McCarthy: Well they’ve just got to stand out. Normally in Grand Finals there’s always someone that sort of wins the game for people, and we’ve got to do good in attack and naturally when you’re in a Grand Final you’ve got to have the best defence on the day too, so you’d be looking at the real good players to really be the stand-out players.

Gerald Tooth: Are you looking for the sort of qualities that Clive Churchill himself displayed?

Bob McCarthy: Yes the way Clive played it’d be pretty hard to do it these days because the defence back in those days wouldn’t have been as organised and structured as it is now. Clive was instrumental in the resurgence of Australian football in the ‘50s and I think that’s why the medal was named in his honour. And again, to answer your question, well we can only go on hearsay about Clive because I didn’t really see him play and neither would the other coaches.

Gerald Tooth: In terms of the presentation of the Medal, the Clive Churchill, do you think it’s in some ways an overlooked award on the Grand Final day?

Bob McCarthy: I don’t know if it’s overlooked, I mean all the players will be playing for it, and I’m pretty sure at the end of the game everyone sits back to watch who won it, and then watch their teams do the lap of honour. So I still think it’s a big highlight of the calendar.

Gerald Tooth: It doesn’t seem to get much mention though in the rest of the year, people aren’t labelled as a Clive Churchill winner.

Bob McCarthy: No, well no-one knows he’s going to be in the Grand Final, so it doesn’t really come into vogue until that week, because I think all the way through the game, the competition, is to make sure you just take each week on its merits and hope that by the end of September that you’re in the Grand Final, then you can sort of focus on the Clive Churchill Medal.

Gerald Tooth: But people aren’t described in terms of their talents as being a former Clive Churchill winner, if you know what I mean.

Bob McCarthy: That’s right, yes. Well that’s up to the press I think. If I’d won a Clive Churchill Medal I’d be letting people know I’ve got it, I’d be wearing it when I go out to tea and everything!

Gerald Tooth: Australian Rugby League selector, Bob McCarthy.

At the MCG tomorrow a three-man panel of a newspaper journalist, a television journalist and a radio journalist will be deciding who will win the Norm Smith Medal.

The radio journalist on the panel is the ABC’s Stan Alves.

In 1964 Norm Smith nearly ended Stan Alves’ football career before it began. He told the new Melbourne recruit he was too scrawny and to go away. Alves didn’t, and what followed was a long and illustrious career on the field, and then as a commentator. I asked him if Norm Smith was worthy of the honour of having a medal named after him.

Stan Alves: Well from my perspective it’s very worthy, he was my first coach. Norm Smith, when I first started playing football, and I’m talking of 1965 now, Norm Smith was my first coach, and I was absolutely thrilled because I mean this man is a doyen of the game, he’s a legend of the game and I think that that’s why the medal named in his honour is a real worthy one, and I know from my own playing days and from speaking to people who have played in Grand Finals, it’s wonderful to win a Grand Final, but to be best on ground in the Grand Final is probably one of the ultimate achievements individually for any player.

Gerald Tooth: Why is that, because the achievement is attached to the enormous amount of pressure that goes with a Grand Final?

Stan Alves: Oh, of course. And also the fact that what you need to understand is that it’s very few people get to play in a Grand Final for a start. At the start of every season there’s something like about 670 players who are picked to play for their clubs and will play throughout the year. When you get down to Grand Final day there’s only 44 blokes play, and there’s only going to be 22 of those people who are going to enjoy a premiership. I mean you’re talking approximately 3% of the blokes who started get to play in the winning side. Now what it also means that on that day you’re Number 1 out of 670. You’ve played in the biggest pressure game, you’ve played on the biggest arena, and in front of millions of people.

Gerald Tooth: Is it fair though to single out an individual on that day, which is really a day about team sport?

Stan Alves: Yes, but let me tell you, teams are made of individuals, and you’re going to need individual efforts. The bottom line is that that individual could not have by himself achieved the aim of winning the premiership, he’s got to be part of the team. It doesn’t necessarily mean that that person was even part of the winning team, although in most cases it comes from the winning side. But I think that it’s a wonderful opportunity, it doesn’t detract in one shape or form from what the team does, but I think it’s also an opportunity for us to say that on that day in this wonderful environment, there was one player who stood out as best on the ground and we would like to acknowledge it.

Gerald Tooth: And it is acknowledged through the year in the next season, the player that’s won the year before will be constantly named as the Norm Smith Medal winner, won’t they?

Stan Alves: Yes, because it is rated highly. Because again, to play in finals as I’ve said, is very difficult to get there; to play in the winning side is difficult, but to actually perform on that day to be the best player on that day in the final game of the season, is a massive challenge, and I’ve got to say to you, that if you look at the people who’ve won it, quality players win it, and they’re acknowledged by their peers.

Gerald Tooth: Former AFL player and now football commentator, Stan Alves.

In 1979 the AFL was the first code to introduce the awards for best on ground on Grand Final day, and now the Aussie Rules media is the first to fully immerse itself in the nostalgia created by such awards.

The AFL record magazine is wondering out loud who would have won Norm Smith medals before they existed.

Michael Lovett is the editor of the Record.

Michael Lovett: What we did we’ve got tapes or vision going back to 1965 of all the Grand Finals, that’s as far back as we can go.

Gerald Tooth: Is that as far back as there is film?

Michael Lovett: Yes, that’s right, there’s a lot of film missing, been lost in archives and whatever over the years, so what we’ve done is gone back to 1965 and judged the best player in each of those Grand Finals, as though we’d be awarding a Norm Smith Medal. So you have to have a panel of three, and it’s three different people over 15 Grand Finals, so we had to get 45 people to sit down and watch videos of a Grand Final, and they just voted three, two, one.

Gerald Tooth: How difficult was it making those judgements from film and video as opposed to how the Norm Smith is awarded, which is from at the game itself?

Michael Lovett: Yes you’ve got to remember it is a lot more difficult watching and judging any game, I think any sport on television compared to watching it with the naked eye. The other thing is that I notice in a lot of the judges and the feedback we got was how much the style of football, and how it’s changed dramatically since, and we’re only talking 30 years ago, that just how much football’s changed. Players were deliberately kicking the ball out of bounds, they were kicking drop kicks that were just bouncing along the ground going nowhere. We found one of the funnier exercises was we had our umpire’s coach, Jeff Gieschen he judged the 1973 Grand Final and he said he would have made retrospectively about four reports on video.

Gerald Tooth: Michael Lovett, editor of the AFL Record. One imagines it shouldn’t be too long before Rugby League follows suit.

And that’s it for The Sports Factor on Radio National this week. The program is produced by Michael Shirrefs, and I’m Gerald Tooth.

Guests on this program:

John Harms
Sports writer and author of "Confessions Of A Thirteenth Man"

Brett Hutchins
Sports historian.

Johnny Raper
Australian 'Rugby League Immortal’.

Ron Barassi
Former champion Australian Rules player and coach.

Bob McCarthy
Australian Rugby League selector.

Stan Alves
ABC football commentater and former Australian Rules player and coach.

Michael Lovett
Editor of the AFL Football Record.