This is an archive copy of a document originally located at
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/sportsf/stories/s494165.htm
With Amanda Smith
1/3/2002
Gay Pride, Gay Prejudice in Sport
Summary:
On the eve of the Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras, a look at gay pride
versus gay prejudice in sport.
The Gay Games are also being held in Sydney this year, in November. But why have
a dedicated international gay sports event, and what sorts of difficulties and
dilemmas do homosexual sportspeople face that others don't?
We'll hear from the one and only top level Australian male athlete who's come
out, the former rugby league star, IAN ROBERTS - who thought he might have paved
the way, but no-one's followed as yet. Also, Canadian swimmer and Olympic gold
medallist MARK TEWKSBURY tells why he had to keep his sexuality a secret until
well after he'd finished competing.
GEOFFREY WILLIAMS, CEO of the Sydney Gay Games, outlines the philosophy of this
event. And we'll meet the GLAMOURHEAD SHARKS, a group of swimmers in serious
training for the games.
Plus, an outing with the PINK MAGPIES, the first gay and lesbian supporter group
to form around the Australian Football League.
Details or Transcript:
Amanda Smith: This week on The Sports Factor, on the eve of the Gay and Lesbian
Mardi Gras in Sydney, a look at gay pride versus gay prejudice in sport.
THEME
Amanda Smith: In exactly eight months' time, over 14,000 athletes will gather in
Sydney for one of the biggest sporting events in the world, the 2002 Gay Games,
which celebrate sport and sexuality, athleticism and acceptance. But why have a
dedicated gay games? And what sort of difficulties and dilemmas do gay and
lesbian sportspeople face that others don't?
SONG: 'Secret Love' - Doris Day
I guess homosexuals have always felt excluded by sporting events, and
particularly the Olympics for example. There's a long history of gay or lesbian
athletes who felt they had to keep their sexuality secret.
Mark Tewksbury: I was deeply closeted as an athlete because I was terrified of
coming out. I was terrified of the implications, the fear of being rejected by
my coach even, that maybe he wouldn't coach me any more, from my team-mates, to
think that somehow they would get the wrong impression, and how do you begin to
approach that?
Ian Roberts: Everyone lives their lives the best way they know how. But here
comes a point, Oh my God, unless you stand up and make your life your own, and
if you're always worried about what other people think, well, it's such a
horrible way to live.
Diana Carroll: We can't really imagine the day when an AFL player's going to
bring his boyfriend to the Brownlow Medals and we'll admire his boyfriend's
outfit on the way in; but I hope that day comes.
Amanda Smith: Well of all sports, the football codes do most strongly embody a
tough, masculine heterosexuality. And to date there's been just one Australian
male footballer who's publicly declared his homosexuality, not from Australian
Rules Football, but from Rugby League. For The Sports Factor, Bridget Tilley
reports on the gay paradox in sport.
RUGBY LEAGUE COMMENTARY
Commentator: .early on in the Grand Final, to Britt in centrefield flying at him
to take him around the hips Ian Roberts .
Bridget Tilley: Ian Roberts was at one stage the highest paid Rugby League
player in the world. Acknowledged as an aggressive, uncompromising forward,
Roberts began his career with the South Sydney team and ended it a decade later
in North Queensland. Along the way, he played 13 Tests for Australia, and as the
only out top-level Australian male athlete, he's become something of a gay icon.
Roberts retired from Rugby League in 1997 (he's now at drama school training to
be an actor) but for years he played the role of the tough Rugby League player.
Ian Roberts attracted global publicity when he came out in 1995, although well
before that, his sexuality was common knowledge among his team-mates.
Ian Roberts: It was just something that wasn't spoken about, so when I came out
publicly, everyone in the team knew I was gay, and had for a number of years,
and there'd always been those stories and vicious, vicious rumours about me and
my private life. So, you know, most of the guys were fine, there were the few
that were uncomfortable, particularly the shower situation, but you know, I'm
like my attitude is that don't flatter yourself. That was their problem, not my
problem. And I think at the end of the day everyone respects honesty and
regardless, if they respect your lifestyle by the way you life your life, most
people admire honesty. Foolishly, I thought maybe there might have been a few
more people who were honest publicly with their private lives.
Bridget Tilley: Does that surprise you? Because so many people at the time said
that you were paving the way in a sense, but do you look at the stats in general
society, one out of ten, or whatever it might be, people are homosexual. So
therefore the stats show that that must be the case in sport.
Ian Roberts: Yes, everyone lives their lives the best way they know how. But
there comes a point, Oh my God, unless you stand up and make your life your own,
and if you're always worried about what other people think, my God, it's such a
horrible way to live. I mean I've got to be honest, if I knew ten years ago what
I know now, or I felt ten years ago what I feel now, I would never have been
closeted. Fortunately, in Australia, the majority of the general public, I
wouldn't say they're comfortable with the fact that they know there's gay people
playing sport, but they're accepting of the fact. I would have thought since I
came out there would have been a couple more people. But you know, they're small
steps. It's only now that I'm realising (sounds a bit pretentious) but it's only
now I'm realising how important it is what I did, like six or seven years ago.
Bridget Tilley: Ian, you're 6-foot-4 and around 110 kilos, a giant of a man if I
could say that; did you think in Rugby League circles your size in a way sort of
helped you when you did come out? Were people scared of you, for example?
Ian Roberts: God, that's new, very good for my ego, it makes me sound fantastic.
Yes, you know, I suppose it was the whole stereotyping of what a lot of people
have the idea of gay people being effeminate and small and somewhat girly I
suppose, I don't like to use that term. I mean that's stereotyping, that's
exactly why people need education and the younger they're educated, the easier
it is to understand that being gay is across the board, there's no stereotype.
I'll say this but, some of my dearest, dearest friends who are incredibly
effeminate, smaller guys, I tell you, have got more balls than most of the
football players I played against because they're out there being who they are,
walking in the street being abused continuously. But they're who they are.
You've got to respect that, they have so much courage, I have so much admiration
for people who are just comfortable with themselves.
Bridget Tilley: Do you have much to do with Rugby League or Rugby League circles
any more?
Ian Roberts: God, yes, I do, I'm on the panel actually, on the judiciary, I'm
the hangman, which is kind of a good turn of events actually. So yes, I've still
got my finger in pie type thing, and the good thing about being on the judiciary
is that you're close enough to be part of the game, but far enough away to
distance yourself from it.
Bridget Tilley: Now Ian Roberts went public about his sexuality while was still
playing top-level Rugby League. Others have not felt so courageous, and waited
till their sports careers were over. At the Barcelona Olympics in 1992, the
Canadian swimmer Mark Tewksbury won a Gold Medal in the 100 metres backstroke.
Nobody knew he was gay.
BARCELONA SWIMMING COMMENTARY
Commentator. Tewkesbury coming home strongly for Canada this could be close.
Rouse is slowing down, Tewkesbury is finishing strongly, it might be an upset,
but Tewkesbury's got it. Mark Tewkesbury scores an upset .
Bridget Tilley: And Mark Tewksbury would cause another major upset a few years
later. He retired from swimming after the 1992 Olympics, but stayed involved
with the Olympic movement, through membership of the Canadian Olympic Committee;
work with the world swimming authority, FINA; and he was being seriously groomed
for IOC membership. But in 1999, disillusioned with the Olympic movement,
Tewksbury turned his back on sport and publicly declared his homosexuality. He
says that coming out while he was still competing wasn't something he could have
done.
Mark Tewksbury: Let's put it this way, I was deeply closeted as an athlete
because I was terrified of coming out. I was terrified of the implications, not
necessarily from a monetary perspective but just the acceptance factor, just the
fear of being rejected by my coach even, that maybe he wouldn't coach me any
more, from my team-mates to think that somehow they would get the wrong
impression and how do you begin to describe to them that it's OK, that I'm among
you, and that I don't look at you in certain terms. It was so complicated, I
didn't even know how to begin to approach that. The consequences of that were
that for most of my career, that energy that could have been used to try to be
the best in the world, and focusing on that, some of it was wasted just trying
to protect myself and pretend to be something I wasn't, and later in my life, I
came to finally the place where I didn't want to play that game any more, but
unfortunately as an athlete, I didn't have the courage at that time, or the
understand of maybe even the language, to cross that barrier.
Bridget Tilley: What sort of reaction did you encounter, especially at home in
Canada, when you came out? Because you were the Golden Boy, weren't you, of the
swimming pool, much like Australia's Ian Thorpe was at the 2000 Olympics, you
were that man in 1992.
Mark Tewksbury: Well much as I have tried, Canada still loves me. I've tried
everything. I've been very open about my life, I've been a public figure; coming
out was one of the things. Lately they write 'Mark Tewksbury's latest bombshell'
that's the kind of stuff I get in the press. You know I think many people knew;
it was this whole game of who knows and who doesn't know, and the innuendos and
at first some people were surprised and people were like, Oh thank God you've
talked about it because we knew and now we can talk about it. But life has
carried on, and in fact I would say that it's probably helped my career and
other things in the long run. When I did it, I was still of the frame of mind of
people telling me, It's the worst thing you can do, and Your career's going to
be over, which I know a lot of gay people here advise. Sure, certain things
didn't happen but other things that I never could have planned of, have. For
example, being in Sydney, being part of Mardi Gras and speaking about the Gay
Games.
Bridget Tilley: Some people that I've spoken to have said, If only I'd not
wasted so much time and energy worrying and thinking about coming out, I would
have done it years ago.
Mark Tewksbury: There was that kind of feeling, it was a little bit like, God,
what took me so long? But easier to say once you've done it. I know why it took
me so long, because I just wasn't ready to face some of the issues and deal with
some things. But another thing is, why do we have to talk about it? And in a
perfect world, we wouldn't have to. But unfortunately it's like when I came out,
there's always these contradictions. On one hand, people like yawn, yawn, Who
cares? and particularly the gay community, because in a sense, I was out, I was
living my life with my partner and going to events. But the same morning there
were 93 calls from the mainstream press by 10am wanting interviews. It was a
scrum, a frenzy. And even they were saying, Yes, who cares? And I sort of threw
back at them, Well if you don't care, why did you call?
Bridget Tilley: How do you reconcile that?
Mark Tewksbury: I'm starting to see change really does happen one by one, and
it's the cheesiest saying, If I change one person, I've done my thing today. But
truly, by just being yourself and being in a circumstance and kind of dealing
with that, and sometimes all I can do is laugh, because it's just I guess,
helping people become aware of the different sides of the issue, and why I did
it, so that people are clear on the intention, and from one camp I heard, Oh he
came out because his career was flagging, and I thought, Gosh, that's really the
last reason I would have come out. So you just deal with it. There are
contradictions and I think you just have to be aware of them and laugh. It's not
like other parts of life aren't the same, it's just the way it is.
Bridget Tilley: How about being an individual sportsman as opposed to other
people that have been involved in team sports? Do you think, you weren't out at
the time of competing, but do you think in a sense it might be easier for
individual sportspeople?
Mark Tewksbury: It's a question of degrees. I don't think it's easy, period. But
I think it might even be more challenging if you're part of a team. I find it so
incredible that today I know Ian Roberts is an out gay athlete in Australia, but
in North America, in our professional leagues, which are baseball, football,
basketball and hockey, I don't believe there's a single out gay athlete, which
still says something. And it still means obviously there's an issue, even if we
kind of want to deny that and say, Oh, why the Gay Games, and why do we need to
talk about this? That fact stands so strongly that it's not a safe place for
people to feel like they can be honest about who they are.
Bridget Tilley: What's your experience been in the past with the Gay Games?
Mark Tewksbury: Actually my experience has been just with the traditional
Olympic movement in the past. I came up through the system 16 years as a
swimmer, three Olympic Medals, retired in '92, joined the business side, the
Canadian Olympic Association, IOC, FINA, the international swimming body,
retired in '99 out of frustration and really a crisis in leadership. I just
don't believe in the way that sportsmen run around the world from an amateur
side, and was invited to sort of an affiliate Gay Games event. It was a world
championship for swimming for gays and lesbians in Toronto. And was just struck
by the participatory spirit of the event, and it really appealed to me. It
appealed to those values and ideals that I grew up with, that just to be at the
Olympics was exciting, and to participate. And so ironically it's been the Gay
Games that have brought me back to sport, which I thought I'd never had anything
to do with again.
Bridget Tilley: Mark Tewksbury, in Sydney to launch tomorrow's gay and lesbian
Mardi Gras. And he'll be back in the harbour city in November to compete in the
2002 Gay Games. The Gay Games have been held every four years since 1982, and in
Sydney there'll be 45 sports across 31 venues. The economic impact is estimated
at $100-million, with some 25,000 overseas visitors expected. It's big, but
according to Geoffrey Williams, who's the CEO of the Gay Games, there's also a
strong philosophy behind the event.
Geoffrey Williams: The three key ideas are inclusion, participation and personal
best. So the Gay Games are open to anybody to participate in. Obviously gays,
lesbians, trans-genders, bisexuals and straight people, I mean no-one is
excluded, and I suppose that's the whole point of the Games, is that I guess
homosexuals always felt excluded by other sporting events, and particularly the
Olympics. For example there's a long history of gay or lesbian athletes who felt
they had to keep their sexuality secret because the sporting organisations are
reasonably homophobic and probably are often described as the last bastions of
homophobia in civilised countries like Australia, the United States, and the UK
etc.
Bridget Tilley: What level of government and commercial support does the Gay
Games enjoy, or otherwise?
Geoffrey Williams: The Sydney Games are very interesting, because it's a
transition period in the history of the Gay Games movement. In Amsterdam, there
was the beginning of trying to get sponsors on board and international
television rights and things like that, and they had some limited success there.
But basically it was still the community event that began in 1982, and it's
grown and grown, but still had that community sort of focus. Now we're, taking
it through that transition from the community event to an international sporting
and cultural event of major significance. And so we've been out there in the
marketplace very much looking for sponsorship, and we've been remarkably
successful. It has been obviously quite difficult to get into the major
corporates because no-one's really gone to them before, asking for the amount of
money we're asking for.
Bridget Tilley: How about in the media? I mean how are you going to formulate
your marketing or publicity campaigns, and how do you expect the media to report
on the Gay Games?
Geoffrey Williams: Well there are two challenges to how we anticipate the media
to treat it. In one sense, there's an inclination to even our best supporters in
the mainstream press, for example, to trivialise it. It's all about handbag
throwing, as one of the sports, which of course it isn't. And to emphasise the
frivolous and the party side of it, and all that sort of business. It really
does get up the nose of a lot of the serious athletes. So there's that side, and
that's on the side of your supporters that you've got to deal with, to take it
seriously. And on the other side is the fear and loathing and the tabloid press
sort of reaction, and it's entirely predictable, so all we can do is deal openly
with them, counteract the fear and loathing campaigns with pride and
celebration.
Bridget Tilley: How do you feel about people that might say Well it's irrelevant
that I'm homosexual. People have turned that around though to say, Well then why
have the Gay Games? Why do you need to single out homosexual people, why do they
have their own Games?
Geoffrey Williams: Well for many of the athletes coming, their own sexuality may
be not an issue to them, but they're still chosen to participate here. I guess
because they feel in the teams that they play in in their home cities, which are
either mixed straight and gay teams, or they're all gay teams, there's a reason
for them doing that, because there is still homophobia in the sports, they're
afraid to come out, if you like, or to play with other teams. And it's nothing
to do with their ability as athletes, it's just to do with their sexuality. So
that's why they're here, that's why 14-1/2-thousand of them are going to come.
And they've been doing that all of the Games. So the mere fact that people want
to participate says that6 there's a need to do it.
Bridget Tilley: Do you see the role of the Gay Games in a way to increase
acceptance of homosexuals in mainstream events, if I could call them that?
Geoffrey Williams: One of the key reasons why Dr Tom Wadell founded the Gay
Games movement, following the Mexico Olympics where he was US decathlete, was
that he felt there was a huge amount of homophobia in the Olympic movement
amongst the teams and in the sports, and what he wanted to say was "We're just
ordinary people, we're just like everybody else, we like playing sport like you
like playing sport," and just by that example use the Gay Games for acceptance.
I guess that's still a very important part of it. And when you consider that
many of the athletes that are coming here, are coming from countries where it is
still illegal to be gay or lesbian, where there are State-sponsored or
State-sanctioned violence and repression against homosexuals. For them to come
to a country in a society that is free, that's a life-changing experience, and
everybody who goes to the Gay Games, they always come out of it saying, "It's
completely changed my life'".
Amanda Smith: Geoffrey Williams, organiser of the Sydney Gay Games, speaking
there with Bridget Tilley.
Well there's a group of swimmers in Melbourne who are currently in serious
training for a life-changing experience at the Gay Games. They're called The
Glamourhead Sharks, and Lawrie Fabian is their coach.
Lawrie Fabian: Ladies and gentlemen, listening please. You're going to do 600
pool, breathe up, going up the pool. Every third stroke coming back, every fifth
stroke, which means you're going to have to bilateral, OK? Is everybody on the
same page?
Amanda Smith: The Glamourhead Sharks are a group of gays and lesbians ranging in
age from 19 to 59. Some of them are really good swimmers, others have very
little swimming experience. But, according to their coach, Lawrie Fabian,
they're all going to be competing at the Gay Games in Sydney.
Lawrie Fabian: Absolutely, that's part of a whole mission that we're on, and I
suspect that we will be the biggest individual team out of everybody competing.
And that's great for us, and we'll be a real presence there. It doesn't matter,
regardless of what time you swim, you're in the water, because we're there to
celebrate the fact that we are swimmers, and the fact that we just happen to be
gay.
Amanda Smith: Well Lawrie, tell me about your own experiences. You work as a
sports professional and you're a former phys.ed. teacher, you're involved in
managing a professional athlete program in football, so you've made a career of
sport. But has the combination for you of being sporty and gay caused you any
problems?
Lawrie Fabian: Well I never did feel part of the gay and lesbian community at
all. As a matter of fact, when I was a younger man, there was a lot of suspicion
about someone who was an athlete, because it's not within the realm of thinking
for most gay people at all.
Amanda Smith: So you're really saying that a sense of alienation that you might
have felt wasn't with the sports world, or hasn't been with the sports world,
but has been with a gay community?
Lawrie Fabian: You've hit the nail on the head. I was very comfortable in that
sporting environment and indeed you know, most athletes don't care what
sexuality you are, they're so busy concentrating on their own thing, and
honestly, most athletes are very selfish people and are in their own world, and
aren't really interested in who you sleep with, or whatever. So the real area
that I had problems with, was within the gay community themselves, and found
them not terribly accepting of sporting people within the gay community. And I
guess I'm working through all that now, by my role with the Glamourhead Sharks,
and being able to facilitate positive experiences for them in sport, in swimming
in particular, but in sport, and in being part of a team, because that's always
something that I've liked being part of. Being an athlete, I knew how valuable
that was, and what a bonding process it is. And now I work in professional
sport, it's even stronger. I see the massive bond that's created between people
who are on a mission together. And I want to create that with us, I want us to
experience that group success.
Ian Fenwick: I was a reasonably good swimmer at school, it was about the only
sport that I was any good at, but I'd certainly had the reputation of being a
bit of a girl on the sports field, excuse the expression. I still throw like a
girl I'm told. It was just something that I wasn't very good at, and it wasn't
that I wasn't a co-ordinated person, because I had in fact done some ballroom
dancing and other forms of dance. I just never really could cope with the
aggressive, onfield team environment that was there. And usually I was copping
any abuse from other team members because I dropped the ball or something. I
have to say that wasn't always discouraged by the teachers, so it was a pretty
negative experience for me, growing up.
Katherine Holmes: I think the Gay Games is truly the gay person's equivalent to
the Olympics in a lot of ways. We see it as a great uniting force for sport, and
for people of our sexuality who don't often get a chance to get out there and
prove themselves. It's sufficiently important for me that I've given up a
lucrative job offer overseas so that I can stay here, train and participate in
something that should do Australia proud. We had the Olympics, and now the Gay
Games is as big for Australia, that's why I want to compete.
Ian Fenwick: I mean I was joking the other day. I'm 36 years old, it's taken
this long for me to actively participate in a sport, and I get a great deal out
of the camaraderie in the team, a lot of the team have had similar experiences
in sport so we all relate to one another and we can sort of boost each other up
when the confidence is maybe a bit low. But it's definitely been a positive
thing. In fact a life-changing experience, because if anybody had said to me You
could maybe be competing in the Gay Games in swimming, I would have said, I'm
not good enough. And of course I found out that maybe I am.
Lawrie Fabian: Robbie, watch those starts! Set! Go!
DIVE
Amanda Smith: The Glamourhead Sharks swimming squad, in training for the Gay
Games in November.
So far, we've been talking about gay and lesbian participation in sport, from
elite to recreational level. But there's a bunch of gay and lesbian football
supporters in Melbourne who are flying the flag as fans, as watchers rather than
doers. They're known as the Pink Magpies, and Bridget Tilley has the story.
COLLINGWOOD SONG
Bridget Tilley: Collingwood, the Australian Rules Football Club with a rich
history. The Magpies have a fan base regarded as the most fanatical in the AFL,
and now some of them have banded together to form an organisation called The
Pink Magpies. It's footie's first-ever gay and lesbian supporters' group.
Diana Carroll is a member of the Pink Magpies, and Richard Watts is the group's
founder. And according to Richard, the response so far to the Pink Magpies, from
the Collingwood Football Club, from the players, and from the media, has been
mixed, although generally supportive.
Richard Watts: Well the initial reaction from the club was cautious to begin
with. I think they wanted to make sure I wasn't pulling their leg, and that I
was quite serious about what I was doing, and once they had kind of established
that, they've been really supportive ever since. The players I think initially
there was some kind of curiosity. It's the first time anything like this has
been done with any AFL Club, and having spoken to one of the players previously,
I'm aware that there was a little bit of joking and joshing going on in amongst
the players about the group. But they seem really happy and really supportive of
the fact that there are just more Collingwood fans out there. The media on the
other hand has ranged from enthusiasm to outright homophobia in some cases.
Interstate radio tried to turn it into a joke, some of the tabloid newspapers
insinuated that the Pink Magpies were out to destroy our great national game.
Overall, the media has been quite positive, albeit puzzled, wondering. I think
they weren't aware that gay and lesbian people actually liked football, I think
they thought we all liked Kylie Minogue and that was about it.
Bridget Tilley: Diana Carroll what attracted you to the group? Have you been a
long-time Magpies fan?
Diana Carroll: Certainly a long-time Magpies fan. I've been going to the game
since I was four years old. I'm also a mate of Richard's, so he talked me into
joining and it's been a lot of fun, and of course there's lots of gay men and
lesbians who love their footy just like everyone else does, and it's fun to have
a supporter group.
Bridget Tilley: Do you have other sort of get-togethers as well as going along
to the games?
Diana Carroll: Well we had a very interesting night at the Collingwood Football
Club when the Club's historian showed us into the inner sanctum, and for someone
like me, who's been to Victoria Park many hundreds of times, it was very
interesting to go and be places I'd never been before, and learn new things
about the club.
Richard Watts: The highlight for everyone I think was when they unlocked the
trophy cabinet and let us all hold the 1990 Premiership Cup; everyone was quite
excited by that.
Bridget Tilley: What about the reaction from some of the heterosexual fans, if
you like, some of the old hard Collingwood heads?
Richard Watts: Well I think when the club were first approached by me about the
idea of this group, one of the reasons they wanted to move slowly was that they
were concerned that there might be a backlash from some of the older, more
conservative Collingwood supporters and members. After the news of the group was
broken on The Footy Show last year the club I think were bracing themselves for
some negative phone calls. They didn't receive a single call of complaint or
negative phone call and to date I myself have only had two emails that have been
hostile.
Bridget Tilley: Diana, do you think then that Australian Rules Football is
perhaps less homophobic, if you like, than other codes of football, like Rugby
for instance?
Diana Carroll: Maybe in the spectator base, and I'm not a spectator of Rugby so
I can't really comment there. Look, you know, we've got that one shining example
of Ian Roberts from the Rugby code who's been brave enough to come out, and I
think he's a unique individual, that he's had the courage to do that, and I
admire him. We were talking about this amongst ourselves at Pink Magpies, and we
think of the day coming when an AFL player would come out, and I guess we have
to say history will tell us that that would happen, like in every other facet of
life. But at the moment it would be an incredibly brave footballer who would do
that. We can't really imagine the day when an AFL player's going to bring his
boyfriend to the Brownlow Medals and we'll admire his boyfriend's outfit on the
way in. But I hope that day comes.
Bridget Tilley: Just looking forward to the season proper? The first match is on
the 28th March against Richmond at the MCG; what are the big plans for The Pink
Magpies that night?
Richard Watts: I think what we would like to do is organise as a group
beforehand. I'm currently talking to the club, to Collingwood about the idea of
booking seats for us all to sit together, probably somewhere near the cheer
squad. And yes, we're just going to go along to the game as a group and just
have a great time watching our boys win.
FOOTBALL SONG/CHEERS
Amanda Smith: The Pink Magpies, gay and lesbian supporter group of the
Collingwood Football Club. Bridget Tilley was speaking there with the group's
founder, Richard Watts, and fellow Pink Magpie, Diana Carroll.
And that's The Sports Factor for this week on Radio National. Maria Tickle is
the program producer, Kerry Dell is the technical producer, and I'm Amanda
Smith; thanks for your company.
Presenter:
Amanda Smith
Producer:
Maria Tickle
Story Producer:
Bridget Tilly
©
2003 ABC
This is an archive copy of a document originally located at
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/sportsf/stories/s494165.htm
All copyright remains with the creator.
